Why Ann Never Deleted J...Cruel Neutrality! (2011 in review)

It is good to know anti-semitism is not the "dominant" ideology at Althouse

It's Witchcraft!

 Ann Althouse said...
Reasons why we didn't delete J in the past:
1. Strong aversion to any deletion, especially from someone purporting to push back the dominant ideology in the comments.
2. His personal style that involved some craftsmanship (in constructing ugliness).
3. Recognizing the style immediately and skimming over the comments, so that the stuff with actual threats was not noticed.
4. Other commenters around his who were also being insulting, making it hard to see who was the real problem and not wanting to have to delete whole long discussions, especially when they contained some good material.
5. Email from J, whining about how everyone was attacking him and claiming he was defending himself, leveraging that claim off of his being in the minority in terms of the political ideology of the commenters.
6. Not being impressed by complaints that came from people who were being part of the problem.
7. Not getting specific complaints that pointed to the actual worst of his comments.
All that taken together accounts for our tolerance.
12/22/11 4:16 PM

Hmmmm.  Yeah J was a bad actor, but it is all someone else's fault.  The smug self righteousness of that post is gagging.  The continuing saga over at the Althouse comment thread goes on...tell us Ann, how did that work out for you?

I know I should not care about this.  That nasty piece of work shat over all of Ann's commentators (and Ann too) and Ann took it out against her long time commentators.  In the end the predictable revolt is sort of like cutting the turkey before Ann showed up (because she was late in dealing with this mess).  And she is never going to forgive those who called her on it.  So despite the fact the evidence is overwhelming how toxic J was, Ann has an excuse why it took so long to act.  And Ann does have a thing about turkeys.  Sort of explains why J was around so long.

But what do I know, I am just a cow (and her twin).  Now some  criticize Ann over differences over political ideology or other stranger reasons.  I am not in that camp.  I support her site.  I want you to go there.   I assume she does not think all that deeply about politics (nothing wrong with that) and just wants to blog along.  Don't we all?   I want my twin to be happy.  But in her mind I must be evil...or acting in bad faith, because if I am not then the alternative is...

Update:  Trooper is right.  It is time to move on.  

And the winner is...

What's your favorite "12" movie? Selection Votes  The Dirty Dozen  49% 227  12 Angry Men  26% 120  12 Monkeys  16% 74  Cheaper by the Dozen  7% 33  Ocean's Twelve  1% 5  Twelve  0% 0  12  0% 1  460 votes total  pollcode.com free polls Hey look who is doing a poll.  The readers have spoken!  A few move votes and there would not even be a run off in Louisiana. Update:  She is also doing a post of her top nine posts of 2011. Top 9?  A Herman Cain reference perhaps?  Maguro said... Just curious, but why a Top 9? Isn't a Top 10 more customary for these sorts of things? 12/31/11 6:28 PM  rick said... #10 must have been real ugly. 12/31/11 6:33 PM

Could it be commentator disputes at #10?

 Ann Althouse said...

"Just curious, but why a Top 9? Isn't a Top 10 more customary for these sorts of things?"

I was using a Blogger resource that had the top 10 of all time, and all but 1 are this year.

Wish I had a better resource, but that's all I had.

12/31/11 6:45 PM

Well glad that is cleared up.  We couldn't have that could we?  Happy New Year to all!  Especially my Doppelgänger.

I wish you all the best...

This dispute has a sort of dream like A Christmas Carol quality to it. It is both nightmarish and introspective, although there is a hope of redemption. We all have a bit of Scrooge in us don't we? If we don't end this, the not so tiny limping rare clumber might not be with us next year or we might end up like Marley. I do not want to be responsible for that. I truly wish all of you well, including and especially my twin and her consort. Let's drink of the cup of good will.

I wish we all could laugh and forget this. But obviously for some, too much has been said. And that is fine. Separations happen and people move on with their lives. Bukowski said it's possible to love a human being if you don't know them too well. I do not completely believe that, but it is partially true. I assure you all wrecking anyone's place is not and was not my intention (and I doubt it is the intention of most of the others that my twin and consort deem to be the "Dirty Dozen"). Poking fun at pretensions and hypocrisy, well I am certainly guilty of that. I am sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. Don't take me seriously. I am just a cow.

The one commentator who (in my opinion) truly acted in bad faith was J. And the comment in the commetary policy thread today who made the analogy of a dangerous neighborhood vs. a tyranical HOA community was a good one (I am sorry if I forgot who made it, but it was a good comment). Anyone who has blog with open comments has to deal with that.

There is a middle way. J should not have been deleted for being stupid, but for actively attacking other commentators. His were personal attacks, not just disagreements over ideas--and they were repeated all the time. J was not clever, or funny, or interesting. He was mostly boring with occasional unacceptable bouts of abuse and creepiness. And it is okay to disagree with me. Again, I am just a cow.

But that is what could have been. It did not happen that way. It is time to move on. I truly, in all sincerity, wish you all both success and happiness in the future.


Update:  Not to be stalkerish, but I did agree with these comments and who knows how long they will stay up over at my twin's place.  So I post them here.

Steve Koch said...
J was funny the first (very) few times you read his comments but the never ending insults get old fast. Personally the guy did not seem that smart to me but was just talented at insulting people. He frequently knew nothing about the topic on which he was commenting (for example, J knows next to nothing about climate, yet he still pretended like he does).
My interpretation of J's commenting is that by insulting, he can hijack threads without having to know anything about the topic being discussed. It would be quite easy to write a program that would simulate J's comments because his comments are not context sensitive (with the exception of identifying who to target for his relentless abuse).
Any comment moderation policy that permits J's comments is pretty much no moderation at all.
OTOH, getting rid of Trooper is a big mistake. Having said that, Trooper is way, way better on his own blog than he was on Althouse.
12/22/11 6:16 PM

I agree Trooper is funnier at his own place.  I think this is an opportunity for him.   

Harsh Pencil said...

As the Irish would say, because they don't like to take the name of the Lord in vain, "Oh for Fuck's sake!"
TY and EBL aren't trying to destroy this blog and aren't stalking or acting creepy. They are ridiculing you two. Some may find this completely misplaced and see this as ridiculing people who have acted perfectly reasonably, and thus not see the ridicule as funny or apt. Others, including me, see it as funny and well deserved. That doesn't mean I hate you, want to destroy you, want to stalk you, or want to destroy this blog. It's just different strokes for different folks.
But holy moly, the very act of not being able to see the difference between someone ridiculing you and someone creepily stalking you is itself quite worthy of ridicule. And the "does his wife know how he's treating poor little me" stuff is also worthy of ridicule.

As always, your blog, so your rules. I believe in private property. But that doesn't mean someone who thinks the new rules are stupid and you are acting weird and paranoid is somehow acting in bad faith for saying so.
12/22/11 6:24 PM

 I agree "your blog, your rules."  Very good post.  I am mocking them, but I have no bad feelings towards them and certainly no bad faith.  Think of it more like a Friars Club Roast.  Thanks for getting that HP.   


Update II:

Crack said... [in response to HP's post]
 Exactly. It's my experience that Ann and Meade don't see what they don't want to see, won't address what they don't want to address, and - like Glenn Reynolds - because they have a platform and sycophants, continue to think it's O.K. to address concerns from only their viewpoint - like Ann's feminist take on Trooper's behavior which, from here and without talking to him, sounds completely cockeyed. (A man who owns a women's clothing store can criticize a woman without it being weird - especially if that woman does stuff that pretty much invites criticism.) As Shouting Thomas would no doubt say, stop with the feminist shit and look at yourself. 
It makes me wonder who the "Dirty Dozen" are, too, and why. I've only tasted Mary's venom once, and get that, but Trooper? And is ST on the list? Why? because he insisted, rightly, the feminist/gay crap can be bullshit? It can - as bullshit as listening to Al Sharpton on race - but are Ann and meade so beholden to it they'll punish others because it's they who are wearing blinders? ...

12/22/11 8:40 PM

Ann and Meade do not have to worry about outside forces with "bad faith" motives ruining their blog.  They are doing a fine job of that with their narcissistic paranoia!  Still, I hope it is just a temporary madness on their part.  They have their blog, I have my little pasture, Crack has his place, and TY has his.  It is all good.  

How dare you show your back to me, slave...

Below my twin commanded that I email her and her consort.  That sort of reminded me of this.

Definition of Bad Faith:   "If you've gotten a personal request from me or Meade and your response is to flout it, for example, by lecturing us about somebody else who you think is worse, that's quite telling."  


Update:  


My twin explains how she determines bad faith:  


Paddy O said... "I think Trooper always commented in good faith, it was just more like a different religion."

I was very forgiving for a long, long time, but Meade and I have been reading and analyzing this more than you have -- unless you've been over-the-top obsessed with this blog for years -- and we arrived at the decision that he is one of the bad faithers. Sorry to say that.

12/22/11 10:00 AM 

Sort of like a meta Santa Claus, she is making a list and checking it twice...

The Lawnboy Cries Mary

Meade said...

Alright, it's been over an hour and no email. I was hoping you would reveal yourself to be someone else but I now know who you really are: Mary.

December 22, 2011 11:05 AM 

No.  But this is not twenty a dozen questions either.  Your inquiry is arguably not in good faith, but more importantly, you are missing the point.

Update:

Ann Althouse said...

"If you've gotten a personal request from me or Meade and your response is to flout it, for example, by lecturing us about somebody else who you think is worse, that's quite telling."

It's quite telling because the idea of good faith is that you care about this blog and you want to add value. I'm fine with people disagreeing with me. I want all the debate. What catches me is people who are here to hurt this forum, to try to destroy it. These are the people who don't appreciate what I am doing here. And I really believe that if I or Meade says, directly to you, that you need to email, and then you don't, then you are not with me about the big project of maintaining a forum here. You have a bad motive. You are not giving us that very basic level of respect that says: I do value this forum. That is the sine qua non of good faith.

12/22/11 1:10 PM

sine qua non is Latin for "I do not like being made fun of."  

Sock Puppets?

Methadras said...

If trooper york is suckpuppeting as J I would be shocked. I don't believe it frankly. J was as transparent to spot as a dog pissing on a fire hydrant. He was the dog and this blog was the fire hydrant. J's style was like a stunted stream of gat9 thought. More misfire than autofire. Even then, he was never right, never accurate, and frankly lied most of the time anyway. If he is gone good riddance. If he wants to come back and show off again. I'll be right here to out him the first time he showed up.

12/22/11 12:57 PM

Dust Bunny Queen said...

when J started sending creepy emails and leaving comments and generally stalked--he crossed a bright line.

Ditto. Same thing on my blog, stalking and threats. I would not go to his blog since he seems to have an IP sniffer. Thinks he knows where you are located.

It is moronic to even think that Trooper could be J, or that Trooper is writing in bad faith...whatever that means. (I guess it means to destroy the comment threads.)

I still like to comment on some of the topics that interest me on the 'other' blog because I enjoy the dialogue with the other commenters.

However, mass deletion of commenters is going to remove the quirky humor and interesting side topics that have always made the internet interesting.

As I have said, if you don't like to read all of the comments or a particular person....that's why God invented the scroll wheel on your mouse. Or was that Bill Gates? I'm confused...

December 22, 2011 2:04 PM

I do not believe it either Methadras and Dust Bunny Queen.  And you know something, my twin does not believe it.  

Meade said...

1. lawnboy spinelli
2. RAA EBL

Can you name the other 10 of your fellow heros?

December 22, 2011 9:31 AM 

EBL said...

Actually I was waiting for you to give me the list of the Dirty Dozen.

December 22, 2011 9:56 AM 

Meade said...

Email me.

December 22, 2011 10:01 AM 

EBL said...

Meade:

I am not Trooper, or J, just EBL. Is there mockery of recent events? Yes. Is it being done out of bad faith? No.

You should laugh and move on. Because I assure you wrecking your place is not my intention (and I doubt it is the intention of most of the others you deem to be the "Dirty Dozen"). The one commentator who truly acted in bad faith was J. And the comment about a dangerous neighborhood vs. a tyranical HOA community is a good one. There is a middle way. J should not have been deleted for being stupid, but for actively attacking other commentators. Personal attacks, not just disagreements over ideas. J was not clever, or funny, or interesting. He was mostly boring with occasional unacceptable bouts of abuse and creepiness.

I truly, in all sincerity, wish you both success and happiness in the future.

And you might remember that the Dirty Dozen were in the end the good guys.

December 22, 2011 10:14 AM 

"There are about a dozen. Call them 'The Dirty Dozen.'"






Update:  Meade said...
Right. Instead of "dirty dozen", when asked, I should have said, 'there are probably about a dozen. Call them the dirty dozen. No, call them the meta dirty dozen.' Plus J.

December 22, 2011 10:38 AM 

Meta Dirty Dozen does sound sort of cool, provided J is not part of it.  

Update II:  

 Ann Althouse said...

Those of you saying that 12 seems like too many... remember: "if your comments are deleted and you don't understand why, write to Meade" and no one is emailing Meade like that. So I say we're applying the policy right. We know what we're doing. And if you are requested to email about it and you don't do that, it is evidence of bad faith. If you've gotten a personal request from me or Meade and your response is to flout it, for example, by lecturing us about somebody else who you think is worse, that's quite telling.

12/22/11 1:06 PM

Update III:  

ndspinelli said...

"I have here in my hands, the list of 12..." Joseph McCarthy

And, as all dudes know, the Dirty Dozen had a noble cause and killed many German Officers. I'm on the list and damn proud of it! I see myself as Posey!

Finally, law professors aren't big on facts, just the law. I don't believe Trooper ever commented about "Bloody Sunday." I coined the phrase. Maybe the professor can't tell Eyetalians apart, they all smell alike, "like garlic and salami." But, it's an honor to be confused w/ Trooper...except for the Yankee horseshit.

12/22/11 1:29 PM

And as predicted, EBL's comments today were purged from the comments thread over at my twin's place.  

Update IV:  


An earlier comment today by Crack over at my twin's place.  It says a lot and it says it well (although let me confirm EBL is not Trooper York):  

The Crack Emcee said...

I'm rambling here:

I don't know what to make of the new comment policy. And, since I was away when whatever happened with Troop, I can't speak on that - except to say he's questioned my posts about you, so I have a hard time understanding how he can be J. On the other hand, there's been a commenter on my blog, named the "Evil Blogger Lady," and Troop's the first follower on his/her blog, so anything could be happening.

What I can say is this:

I've challenged you on several grounds - ethics being one of them - because, when you're all over the board ethically, anything ugly is possible to happen. Letting standards slip, in that manner, is what makes neighborhoods into ghettoes and then killing fields - I've seen it. Some applaud you for, say, defending a pro-life position in posts, knowing you're pro-choice. I'm not one of them. Such a scattershot approach invites anger because there's no clear through-line and, in our society today, we desperately need one. And, yes, being a law professor doesn't help, making you appear to either denigrate (or at least not appreciate) the position as loftily as we may see it:

You're pretending to be some chick who's a law professor when, in reality, you're a law professor acting like some chick.

I see it as the Boomer/Hippie/NewAge thing - the ethos, that comes with those roles, to mischievously question even those things that, once mature, you should know are important (and settled) enough to be done questioning. A fetus is a baby - and we don't kill babies. That kind of thing.

Anyway, I don't know if any of that makes much sense, but, just off the top of my head, that's what I'm seeing/feeling. YMMV.

Also, I liked the blog better with Troop (and Shouting Thomas) than without him, but I understand that may be out of your/Meade's hands. One other thing, though:

You and Meade (and Glenn) never apologize for fucking up. But you're human - you do fuck up. Admitting your lapses in judgment can go a long way towards humanizing you in this clearly distancing format. You have power, however limited. This blog, like Instapundit, doesn't exist in a whatever-I-want-to-do vacuum - it affects lives. Copping to going off the rails occasionally is helpful. You don't lose points for it, but gain them. It may not seem like it, immediately, but some things don't.

I guess that's all I have left to say,...

12/22/11 10:23 AM

"You cannot change the country unless you are interesting and attract attention."

"And to do that, you have to have a group."

What EBL told Trooper York.  

"We gave Trooper York a fair trial, and we will give ndspinelli and the others a fair trial too."

Assurances by the blog lawn consort to turn over those mocking EBL and her consort.  Dissent is fine but not if it includes making fun of EBL and her consort.  Many former readers of EBL have left that site over the last few weeks.  Amazon portals, however, are still available, for subsidized shopping.  A stockpile of Pinot Evil is being amassed for emergency purposes.  

A Critical Reflection On Blogging

An edited excerpt:


Sandra Tsing Loh  [A certain well known blogger] delivers a bracing look at menopause in her Atlantic essay, [recent behavior we could call,] “The Bitch Is Back.” “I am fast losing patience with the day job of mother[blogger]hood,” Loh [a certain well known blogger] writes. She also describes periods of “crippling, unreasoning gloom.” During them, “You experience anxiety at the notion of being face-to-face with your loved ones [commentators], because they will read from your dull eyes that which you can no longer hide — that you don’t love them, never will again.”




Update:  This is a work of fiction that explores certain truths.  Of course, like A Christmas Carol, this story need not turn out this way.  

Shopping for My Evil Doppelgänger

You know something, don't bother with my evil sister's Amazon portal, you can often do better at other portals if you shop around.  My evil sister does not need the cash.  She has enough box wine.

Cookies
Road emergency kit
Utility Shovel
Ear muffs
Lawn mower

Nintendo DSi xl
Earrings
Underwear
Tofu
Rugala
Arugala
Lawn jockeys
Idiot's guide to blogging
Trapper John MD DVD Box Set
Yoyos

A few special, edible/drinkable gift ideas.

HP Sauce

Yeast

Popcorn

Olive oil

Coconut water

Ramen

Ice cream

Tea

Espresso

It is all about generating revenue and feeling your bloggy love for what I do.  And freedom.  Except for those who do not respect this place.

I really liked The Help.  Especially the pie scene.

Update:  This is from a post I did over at Trooper's.  This is not directed at any person in particular, I offer this as a general comment to all bloggers who delete a bit too freely out of a misplaced sense of control.

I actually have no problem with any blogger figuring out a way to monetize their blog. So I welcome that and Amazon is a good (relatively painless way to do it). Even if the expenses are non-existant (because Google is paying for them so they can funnel ads from its search engines), so what? It is time consuming. What I mock is using that as some sort of measure of love. 

I am not that sort of cow. 

What is sad is you can have a policy of deleting (or openly mocking) racists (and I would have only deleted a certain one consonant commentator who is truely pretty vile), while being completely pro free speech. Oh well, a blog is more akin to a store. The more customers who come the better. You have friends and a forum for ideas. It is a good thing. But if you are going to get into battles with your customers and make the place un-fun, how is that a good thing? 

Oh well, I hope my twin does well. I do not need vindication. I have my little pasture and friends who stop by and visit. 

Moo.

The EBL and her Lawnboy

Tropper inspired me on this one.  Hey look--Squirrel!  

J Savaged Jews, Women, and Mormons At A Certain Blog Offering Law and Pop Culture, And The Image Still Persists Today

J—whose childish rants just caused trouble and discord at a certain law pop culture blog—was critical of Mormons and Jews. He pilloried almost everyone and offered no humor or merit, except strangely enough to the Prima Donna of the Old House who was either amused by him or left him alone under the concept of cruel neutrality (provided the barbs were not directed at her)....

J was a misogynist racist who supported abusing women and minorities. The tenure of his posts was a product of a sick culture that had developed on a certain blog on law and pop culture...

And what did that blog do in response?  It punished the good commentators and rewarded J.  It deleted posts from long term commentators and let J's vile work stand.  And when those commentators complained, the Prima Donna claimed they were wound licking, not appreciating the great work she was doing, and acting in bad faith.  Then she solicited those commentators left to buy all their Christmas gifts through Amazon so she and her partner could buy lots of cheap box wine to get ready for the end times.  


Or at least that is what I heard.  What do I know?  I am a cow.  


Update: Trooper on a similar theme.


What can you do?  Let's dance:  

Update II:  

Finally, why would someone who occupies a major chair at a major Midwestern law school (and surely receives a major salary in return), who is blogging on a free platform, and who takes advertising, ask her regular readers to donate $$ to her blog because it “helps with some of the expenses.” What expenses?

Enquiring minds want to know.

Answer:  Box Wines.  They are very trendy this year.

My Madison Doppelgänger's box wine of choice!  Who are those three monkeys on the box?  Discuss!