Bob Belvedere reports on why Nelson Mandela should not be canonized as a secular saint.
Peter Hammond is a Christian minister opposed to abortion in South Africa. He is also opposed to gambling and promotion of homosexuality (an issue TOM happened to address today). Hammond met with President Mandela after a protest march and this is his account of that meeting.
Peter Hammond is a Christian minister opposed to abortion in South Africa. He is also opposed to gambling and promotion of homosexuality (an issue TOM happened to address today). Hammond met with President Mandela after a protest march and this is his account of that meeting.
Did you ever experience déjà vu? I am glad that stuff like that can't happen here in the USA. More here.*
Here is the background of the Rivonia Trial (the trial that sent Nelson Mandela to prison for twenty six years). Yes the ANC abandoned non violent opposition to armed struggle (including what could be deemed acts of terrorism). And yes, the South African government was harsh in dealing with the ANC. It is fair to say both sides have considerable blood on their hands.
Mandela and the ANC were supported by Communists (both from neighboring African countries and the Soviet block). Mandela was a man of the left and at a minimum was a Communist sympathizer. Thomas Sowell notes where he thinks Mandela came from ideologically. Hammond states he supported the Apartheid government of South Africa, not because he was a racist but because he opposed Communism. I was not a fan of Apartheid, there were serious civil rights abuses during that time, but it was not as bad as Communism. Not even close.
It is interesting in this account that the thing that seemed to really get Hammond into hot water with Nelson Mandela was not challenging him on Communism, but not jumping for the opportunity in having his photograph taken with Mandela. There is a reason vanity is the Devil's favorite sin.
Unlike RSM, Bob and Adjoran (and also Michael Haz) my appreciation of Nelson Mandela was how he transitioned his position as President and then stepping down after one term (without excusing or justifying the past acts or failed policies of the ANC). With all due respect to the Mandela skeptics, my views on Mandela are closer to this. That does not mean the skeptics are not right on many of their points. It is just counter productive (and wrong) not to acknowledge what good Mandela did. Because the good Mandela did was substantial and real.
This is what Mark Steyn had this to say about Nelson Mandela's legacy:
The only hope for South Africa going forward is embracing the good example that Mandela demonstrated when he served as President without forgetting his and others mistakes in that transition. The solution to the problems of the present is not rejecting things that were good in the recent past. Hey, even Singapore is experiencing economic frustration. But the worse way to deal with these challenges is to embrace victim-hood. I do not discount these are perilous times, but I do appreciate what Nelson Mandela did as president of South Africa. RIP.
Update:
While it is appropriate to remember the good he did, is important not to go too far over the top with Mandela:
* President Obama is adopting the wrong things from President Mandela's legacy.
The focus on Mandela is contrasted by South Africa's current leaders (they are not anywhere near as good)
Lem links Barack Obama's comments at Nelson Mandela's funeral with Machiavelli political "facts."
Mandela and the ANC were supported by Communists (both from neighboring African countries and the Soviet block). Mandela was a man of the left and at a minimum was a Communist sympathizer. Thomas Sowell notes where he thinks Mandela came from ideologically. Hammond states he supported the Apartheid government of South Africa, not because he was a racist but because he opposed Communism. I was not a fan of Apartheid, there were serious civil rights abuses during that time, but it was not as bad as Communism. Not even close.
It is interesting in this account that the thing that seemed to really get Hammond into hot water with Nelson Mandela was not challenging him on Communism, but not jumping for the opportunity in having his photograph taken with Mandela. There is a reason vanity is the Devil's favorite sin.
Unlike RSM, Bob and Adjoran (and also Michael Haz) my appreciation of Nelson Mandela was how he transitioned his position as President and then stepping down after one term (without excusing or justifying the past acts or failed policies of the ANC). With all due respect to the Mandela skeptics, my views on Mandela are closer to this. That does not mean the skeptics are not right on many of their points. It is just counter productive (and wrong) not to acknowledge what good Mandela did. Because the good Mandela did was substantial and real.
This is what Mark Steyn had this to say about Nelson Mandela's legacy:
Well, he was a man of enormous grace and dignity. He spent three decades in jail for his political beliefs, and it would have been very easy, particularly once he’d become the champion of a global moment. There were hit pop songs called Free Nelson Mandela, there was a huge all-star rock gala at Wembley Stadium. He was, he became a poster child for the anti-Apartheid cause. And it would have been easy for him once he’d come out of jail to have been a bitter and a partisan and divisive figure. And he wasn’t. He was enormously generous in spirit given what the South African Apartheid state had done to him for the most productive decades of his life. And whatever the problems of South Africa currently, that period when he and F.W. De Klerk, his predecessor, the last Apartheid leader of South Africa, when they basically agreed to a genuine reconciliation, such as one rarely sees in Africa, I think that is his towering achievement.While we should remember history accurately (because it is often grossly distorted), Mandela deserves kudos for that first term as President (without joining the left and low information media in making Mandela out to be a secular saint). It has hardly been all successful in South Africa since 1994, Desmond Tutu acknowledges South African society is now far more violent than it was under Apartheid. Education in South Africa is arguably worse since 1994. The danger is whether economic frustration will steer South Africa toward the disastrous course of further property redistribution, violent crime, corruption, and tribalism. That is the path Mugabe took with a disastrous outcome.
The only hope for South Africa going forward is embracing the good example that Mandela demonstrated when he served as President without forgetting his and others mistakes in that transition. The solution to the problems of the present is not rejecting things that were good in the recent past. Hey, even Singapore is experiencing economic frustration. But the worse way to deal with these challenges is to embrace victim-hood. I do not discount these are perilous times, but I do appreciate what Nelson Mandela did as president of South Africa. RIP.
Update:
While it is appropriate to remember the good he did, is important not to go too far over the top with Mandela:
The focus on Mandela is contrasted by South Africa's current leaders (they are not anywhere near as good)
Lem links Barack Obama's comments at Nelson Mandela's funeral with Machiavelli political "facts."
"He is not a saint. Madiba is a normal human being." WATCH @BobSimon1's frank conversation with Mandela's widow: http://t.co/QW2vOXzBL8
— 60 Minutes (@60Minutes) December 10, 2013
Wombat: Mandela looks great compared to other racist looting African leaders 
It is not easy to arrive at a neutral view regarding Nelson Mandela. True, he was gracious and forgiving of his enemies and those who imprisoned him. True, he sought the end of apartheid. Equally true, Mandela "signed off" (by his own admission) on acts of terrorism. And he was offered release from prison in 1985 if he would simply renounce the use of terrorism. He wouldn't, and thus languished in prison until freed by deKlerk. And equally true he helped to bring the oppressive, communist, terrorists African National Congress into power.
ReplyDeleteThis may be interesting reading in trying to arrive at and understanding of Mandela.
ReplyDeleteI am not defending what the ANC did, but armed resistance to a government that you deem is restricting your rights (often with violence) is not necessarily evil. The South African government during Apartheid used violence too (outside of rule of law). The ANC started off non-violence then switched tactics. But Mandela did state his goal was for a peaceful democratic South Africa. While not a George Washington or Benjamin Franklin, he did follow some of their example (in showing grace in victory and stepping down as Washington did and in knowing how to play governments and media like Franklin).
DeleteWatch who shows up at the funeral and what they say.
ReplyDeleteOnce past the platitudes, it should be revealing.
People will be falling all over themselves at the funeral. It is revealing already.
DeleteI admit I am confounded by all the hoopla, discussion, debate, et al about Nelson Mandela. He died. I'm sorry anyone dies. He was from South Africa. I am not. What did the man do on a world stage that improved the lives of anyone outside his home country? Enlighten me. I might even listen.
ReplyDeleteThat is a perfectly legitimate response.
DeleteI like a leader in Africa setting the precedent of representational government and then stepping down voluntarily and relinquishing power at the end of his term (he could have stayed on indefinitely if he wished to do so). So that is worth celebrating as a legacy of his life. Because unfortunately, leaders like that in Africa are rare.
Chip S ...cute. Now for a serious answer. Please. I don't expect South Africans or Europeans to celebrate George Washington, Abe Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson, or Martin Luther King ...so tell me what Mandela has done to earn such adulation world wide? In South Africa, even the continent of Africa, I can get it. World wide? Bullshit.
DeleteDon't get me wrong, I acknowledge he accomplished a lot in Africa. BFD. We have our own race issues right here in River City and it is out right hypocrisy to celebrate someone half a world away as unique when we can't resolve our own issues ...and nothing, not one damn thing, Mandela ever did helped even one US citizen. Sorry, I'm sorry he croaked. That's all. South Africa is not my problem so long as we have our own problems to address.
Actually, Aridog, I wasn't being totally flippant. There are quite a few hot SA women in the general neighborhood, and I'm indeed grateful for that.
ReplyDeleteTo your question, though, I don't know an answer in the sense that I feel that I could speak authoritatively to the point. But here is my guess: At least so far, and certainly during Mandela's presidency, South Africa had a pretty successful transition from rule by a white minority to a relatively democratic society. And by the standards of much of Africa it's still relatively economically successful. So I would hazard the guess that the lavish praise is meant to hold the Mandela government up as an example, or an aspiration, or perhaps a rebuke to the radical forces in SA and in some other countries.
The apartheid regime in SA was the last holdout against black rule, IIRC, which made it an international pariah and made Mandela a world celebrity.
So there's a substantive case for Mandela being on the level of, say, Charles de Gaulle (?) (just guessing on that one). And then the celebrity aspect of it provides the amplification for the signal.
As for me, I didn't pay any attention to any of this at all until my SA friend, who's as conservative/libertarian as I am, told me how turned off she was by all the Mandela-bashing going on in the comments sections of various righty websites. So IMO the heat on this issue is all coming from people on the right who insist on being needlessly contrarian.
I really like the way Evi has distinguished clearly b/w Mandela's actual legacy and the apparent attempt of Obama to bask in reflected glory. Criticism of that is completely fair.
Thanks, because that is what I was trying to express (it is also what I believe).
DeleteChip ... thanks for the response. As for Evi's take on this, I rather agree and her comments are why were are on this thread here, right? I do get it that Mandela was good because most of his contemporaries were bad, and his pragmatic refutation of violence upon release from prison speaks to a changed train of thought. Frederik de Klerc may have been a big part of that pragmatic and moral conversion. He did step down, whihc from this distance looks good. Not certain it was entirely voluntary what with the ANC in power, a party that is still to this day technically communist. At a distance, without living there, I can't tell how the domestic environment has deteriorated ... however it appears for many whites to be similar to living along the Bozeman Trail in Red Cloud's day. If you recall, Red Cloud is the only Chief who forced permanent and official retreat by the US Army, and almost all settlers, from a significant territory, including burning down three forts and multiple homesteads. Yet, even here, we "celebrate" Custer and Crazy Horse and barely mention the overall Chief & Commander, Red Cloud. I'm pretty sure few if anyone in SA, white or black or "colored" (it is a tripartition of "races" there, even now) have ever heard of Red Cloud either, or what he accomplished.
DeleteThat is the same way I think about Mandela. He didn't really impact my world, except for the band of latter day hippies who tried hard to wreck the SA economy in order to end apartheid. I respect him for his beneficial accomplishments, credit him with flaws as much as I acknowledge them myself (and there are some ugly ones) , but I can't praise him as a world leader.