Gila Manolson has a book: Hands Off! This may be love. Her advice is avoiding any physical contact prior to marriage is a way to build intimacy. And in a strange way, that has proven true (at least so far) with Game of Throne Characters Jamie Lannister and Brienne of Tarth (and no pun intended between referencing Jamie Lannister and that title of that book).
So the question is: Will Jamie and Brienne get together in Season 4?
Okay, she is a bit weird, but it is not like his character is twisted too.
I eventually began to like Game of Thrones, but it was somewhere in the middle of the 2nd season. I don't understand the hype surrounding the show, since all people have to do is read the books. Not like Sopranos or Breaking Bad, where there is not book to know what's coming in advance.
ReplyDeleteAnyhow, my son has read it and enjoys the show, so I watched it with him. I finally caught up to date this weekend, just in time for the new season. (Again, if I cared that much, I'd read the book.) So, I laughed when Rob and Mommy bought the farm. I've been calling for their demise for over a season now. The thing I remarked to my son is that the story has some attraction and interest, but I find that I'm not rooting for anyone. The closest one to a sympathetic character is Arya, and I suppose there's a measure of concern for her.
Jamie isn't as pompous as in the first season, but he's still not sympathetic, nor has he redeemed himself with his growing fondness and noble-like treatment of Brienne. I still don't like him, but would kill him quickly rather than slowly and painfully. That's as far as his redemption has warranted. I think the implied sexual tension between them isn't going anywhere. Maybe the book reveals differently, but I just don't see them hooking up.
Brienne and Tyrion would be an interesting match.
I agree the characters are ambiguous and conflicted for rooting purposes (with the exception of Geoffrey who is universally scorned). I don't disagree with you about Jamie and Brienne, but I liked that clip of her and it gave me a chance to post about it.
DeleteApparently season 4 departs from the books to some extent (but I have not read them either).
ELB, I understand that what they're going to do is king of mix up books four and five (and trust me, that's a good thing) for the next three or four seasons of the show.
DeletePart of the reason that there seems to be no one to root for is because you're looking at the ruling class of a feudal society, which of necessity makes them all rather brutal. Some are better than others, but that's really beside the point. Some of the more likable characters are admitted scoundrels, but they put on no pretense whatsoever. (Bron is the best example of that, IMO.)
DeleteSince you two are up on the series, perhaps you can tell me - has Jaime explained to Brienne yet how and why he became the Kingslayer? That bit in the books throws a bit more complexity onto his character and motivations.
Young Arya may become a little less likable, be forewarned. Or you may come to like her even that much more, as most of the people reading the books have done. (I'm not sure the things I'm thinking of will translate well from book to screen.) Personally, Tyrion is my favorite character, as he is one of the few reflective characters in the books. (And I'm not sure if some of the others, like Maester Aemon, are even in the TV series.)
One final thing, and then I'll quit bumrushing the comments...
DeleteFunny that you don't think there's anyone worth rooting for but were happy to see Rob die. Rob (and to a lesser extent his father, poor dead Ned) were the closest thing to GOOD people on the show. Mommy certainly deserved to die (and die again) as it was largely her impulsive stupidity that started the war that will leave millions dead.
Icepick, I understand the feudal nature of the show and why the characters are the way they are. I enjoy the Machiavellian twists of it, without taking it too seriously. Strange society that stays almost the same technology wise for 10,000 years though. I am assuming the White Walker threat will force all these feuding clans (Wildings, Westeros, etc. to join together in common defense.
DeleteJamie does explain himself to Brienne in the series, in a bath post-hand-chopping incident. I've been clamoring for Rob to die for awhile. It's funny that my son stoically takes in my analysis and predictions w/o a hint to indicate their accuracy. The scene (from what I understand it was not in the book) in which Arya attacks and kills the guy who was sitting and bragging about her mom's death was a turning point for her character. It ended with a shot of her holding up her bloody hands, which I took to mean she's headed for decline.
DeleteSansa could fall off a tower and it wouldn't bother me in the least.
Tyrion is perhaps my favorite character, perhaps because I like Peter Dinklage. He doesn't exhibit many positive character traits, but is purely entertaining. He does invite a bit of sympathy from his physical condition and the abuse he's suffered as a result, although he has survived and thrived despite that abuse.
Something I remarked about was the lack of technology in their world. The opening credits has all sorts of gears and mechanical-looking graphics spinning the kingdoms into place, but their isn't much in the way of technology in their world. They are a brutish lot.
...and EBL writes a smilar post while I'm writing mine...
Delete...oh, and I want Jon Snow to fall off the wall...
DeleteMost people want Jon Snow to fall off the Wall, LOL.
DeleteAs for the technology, the 10,000 years, and distances: Martin acknowledged somewhere that he's terrible with numbers. If you took him at his word Westeros is something like 8,000 miles long! But mostly think of the things like 10,000 years and "a thousand leagues" as poetic license.
And believe it or not, Sansa becomes more sympathetic as the books go on. She is really annoying, but she was raised to be a pampered princess in a time of peace. She had no idea what she was going to be in for and no training for it. (Blame the parents.)
Yeah, I think I recognize the scene with Arya that you describe, but that should be about the third or fourth person she's killed to that point. But the scene you describe is definitely within character. (Actually, checking the Wiki I see ... well, I can't tell you what I see!)
I like Tyrion (and I especially like Shae, and I can't help but like Bronn). I like Varys too. While not paragons of virtue, both Tyrion and Varys have their redeeming qualities.
DeleteFor similar reasons, I like Davos and Beric Dondarrion.
[Possible spoiler deleted before posting.]
DeleteVarys is much more a spy than might be clear at this point. He and Tyrion are probably two of the three most capable men in Westeros. (The other being Lord Tywin.)
I'd avoid the books until Martin finishes writing them, if he ever does. (He's getting old now, and it is quite possible he'll die before finishing the last two or three books.)
ReplyDeleteThe books were published in 1996, 1998, 2000, 2005 and 2011. He took a long time on book four, and kept people abreast of his progress on line. Shortly before publishing, he decided the book was way too long, decided to cut it in half (mostly be putting half the characters in one book and the other half in the other - books four and five mostly happen at the same time) and publish two books in quick order.
But after the fourth book came out, he started rewriting the fifth book. And rewriting it, and rewriting it some more, and adding some stuff, and eventually published the book that was supposed to be out "really soon now" some six years after book four. The fans were pissed.
And I was pissed. My wife got me started on the books after the fourth came out. And I was promised the fifth would be out really soon. And that didn't happen. I've since promised to read no series at all until the author is dead dead DEAD. I'm not going through this nonsense again.
Additionally, know that seven books are currently planned, but Martin started out with the idea that this was a trilogy. Grrr.
At least Martin's stuff is way better than Stirling's Emberverse that started out okay and then just dragged.
DeleteCouldn't say. I think I've read one story or book by Stirling, but I'm not even certain of that. Anyway, no more series until I know the author is dead! Which is why I'm resisting my wife's efforts to get me to read the Gunslinger Dark Tower stuff from Steven King. She says the series is done, but I say as long as the author is alive you can't be sure.
DeleteHere's a non-spoiler question I can ask (in part because it has NOT been definitively answered in the books):
ReplyDeleteHave you guys figured out who Jon Snow's mother was?
(Of course I don't know how much is made of this in the TV series....)
R+L=J - this is the prevailing theory.
DeleteAnd yes, he should slip and fall off the wall. (I read the last book. It could still happen.)
Okay, so you guys are paying attention.
Delete;)
Like the author, I lost interest in this series. I doubt it will ever be finished and fans will be left hanging.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Martin has lost interest in the series. I think he's overly in love with it. He's written three stories of varying lengths set in Westeros (the Dunk & Egg stories) a few kings before the events in the books. He's done a lot of work on the side with people on maps and whatnot. I really think he's just overly fond of it and thus keeps adding things to it. The problem is that he then realizes he has to go back to cull and edit. He's also pretty busy as an editor, and now with the series he has a lot of things up in the air at once. (He's written at least a couple of episodes for the series, and was a writer for TV a few decades back.)
DeleteAnd with this he's having as much success as he's ever had, and no doubt that is also rather intoxicating, but it also eats into his time.
He wants to be the next coming of J.R.R. Tolkien so now he's trying too hard. That's my theory. Plus he distracted by stardom, which must be fun after nerding away for most of his life. I wish he'd write another Dunk & Egg story. Short and too the point and with spoilers.
DeleteMy son tells me that Martin wore a sign at some convention that read: Every time someone asks me when the next book is coming out, I kill another Stark. Yeah, I'd say he's enjoying the attention.
DeleteYeah, but Tolkein did high fantasy (practically invented it), and this isn't that. I really just think he's fallen in love with his own creation, which can be problematic for an author. Gods generally need to be ruthless, and the author is the god of their own little universe.
DeleteI like the series, but what is exactly the arc? Other than the white walker threat that is? You could have it result in any of these clans taking the Iron Throne and it means...what? Not a whole lot.
DeleteYeah, it doesn't seem to mean anything in the larger sense, but what does? Breaking Bad? Dallas? Castle? No, no and no.
DeleteAnyway, I've enjoyed the books (absense of a completed series excepted, of course), have only seen most of the first season of the series (and had trouble getting into it), and don't really expect to watch the rest of it until much later.
Sopranos was obviously Tony Sopranos arc as a man. This is Sopranos like (in having high production values, decent acting and writing, etc.) but it is basically a Machiavellian soap opera (with a big ladle of Dungeons and Dragons). And that is fine--it will not really resolve itself, just enjoy the voyeuristic trip. Martin and the writers of the show will likely bring it to some sort of resolution, but do you envision one that transforms this make believe society? I do not. But who knows, maybe they will surprise me.
DeleteLoTR had an arc and stronger historical metaphors and analogies.
DeleteBut I am perfectly fine with GoT being just a TV show.
GoT is somewhat reminiscent of the War of the Roses - but with dragons, of course.
ReplyDeleteI actually do expect a somewhat transformed society in Westeros*, as part of what is happening is that magic is returning to the world, after an absence. Thus the whitewalkers and the Others in the north, the return of dragons in the east, priests suddenly able to perform real magic (including raising the dead - some of the dead folk will be back), and so one. It seems destined for the dragons (probably but not necessarily ruled by Dany) will return in time not just to end a ruinous conventional war on the continent of Westeros, but also in time to use their Valyrian Dragonfyre to destroy the menace of the north.
Remember that Game of Thrones is just the name of the first book, but that has stuck for TV purposes. The books are part of the Song of Ice and Fire series.
* Daenerys has already transformed large parts of the world, but not necessarily for the better, in her quest to return home. Not sure of how much of that has hit the TV yet.
Has the fat kid up north realized who Maester Aemon WAS yet? That old man is a witness to the world transforming itself and the return of magic.
DeleteAnd yes, I'm ready for a new book, damnit!
DeleteGoT is based on the War of the Roses (according to the author, but with dragons). You may be right.
DeleteGood website re: GOT
ReplyDeleteThat is interesting. I like the ties in to Ragnarök mythology. Which I just did a post about at BSC News.
Delete