tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587842796867542781.post1093912432073357751..comments2024-03-29T09:05:33.786-05:00Comments on EBL: John Derbyshire's "Talk"Evi L. Bloggerladyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00371362907839227149noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587842796867542781.post-43421415666680278942012-04-09T21:58:44.259-05:002012-04-09T21:58:44.259-05:00I should have said Coming Apart instead of Losing ...I should have said Coming Apart instead of Losing Ground. My bad.Evi L. Bloggerladyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00371362907839227149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587842796867542781.post-74458075814050784052012-04-08T09:22:44.235-05:002012-04-08T09:22:44.235-05:00Excuse me, Coming Apart is the study of Fishtown, ...Excuse me, Coming Apart is the study of Fishtown, PA vs. Belmont, MA.Evi L. Bloggerladyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00371362907839227149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587842796867542781.post-79572200653909104722012-04-08T04:49:11.505-05:002012-04-08T04:49:11.505-05:00I don't really buy Derbyshire's framing as...<i>I don't really buy Derbyshire's framing as a "talk" with his children...</i>-Scobee<br /><br />I do. By doing so, Derbyshire illustrated just how empty is "the talk" black mommas give their poor misunderstood Trayvons.Micha Elyihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13342792492539185940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587842796867542781.post-84788414627830419412012-04-08T04:34:51.976-05:002012-04-08T04:34:51.976-05:00Losing Ground was published in the 1980s. It'...<i>Losing Ground</i> was published in the 1980s. It's probably not the book you think it is.Micha Elyihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13342792492539185940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587842796867542781.post-49366723462777441312012-04-07T22:03:18.659-05:002012-04-07T22:03:18.659-05:00I agree with you comments about testing. I do not...I agree with you comments about testing. I do not buy it proves anything, other than you did bad on the test. <br /><br />The statistical economic data is more reliable, but it does not explain "why" it just shows a result.Evi L. Bloggerladyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00371362907839227149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587842796867542781.post-74112700977000373642012-04-07T22:01:21.264-05:002012-04-07T22:01:21.264-05:00Why does it suck. What do you disagree with?Why does it suck. What do you disagree with?Evi L. Bloggerladyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00371362907839227149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587842796867542781.post-67517343377458707332012-04-07T21:41:27.753-05:002012-04-07T21:41:27.753-05:00I don't really buy Derbyshire's framing as...I don't really buy Derbyshire's framing as a "talk" with his children because this is really not the sort of thing you need to have a "talk" about, it is something that is dispersed and absorbed along the way. If you read the article and follow the links, it's obvious that the article is at least partly a satire of how we talk about race. At the same time, it's equally obvious that Derbyshire believes each and every one of these points.<br /><br />Some on the right are willing to accept racial differences based on skin color, but aren't willing to accept that distinctions between classes of whites are just as likely to be based on genetic factors. (Why wouldn't they be?)If DNA is destiny, then skin color should matter nothing at all to a "race realist." The only thing that should matter is IQ, wherever it is found, because in all of these studies, IQ is the one factor that guarantees economic success. So whether you're talking about a black person or some slack-jawed yokel out of Deliverance, you're talking about the same substance.<br /><br />But you're not going to hear that from the race realist/"human biodiversity" crowd, because while they are no doubt aware that there is a substantial underclass of low-IQ whites, and by their own theories of race and IQ it is a self-sustaining gene pool like any other, they need them. The cognitive elite is outnumbered. So rather than say, "stay away from black neighborhoods AND certain white areas AND certain parts of Chinatown," etc., it's just easier to gloss over the uncomfortable implications with statistics.<br /><br />Personally I am not convinced by the race and intelligence arguments I have heard. I find it hard to believe that if a group of IQ testers went back to Germanic Gaul in 100 AD and administered IQ tests to the tribesmen there, that they would score higher than Mediterranean, African or Middle Eastern peoples who were connected by civilization. And even if they did, what would that mean? I'm willing to accept that intelligence is a function of heredity, but how it works and whether or not our concept of IQ is valid - I'm skeptical.Scobeenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587842796867542781.post-12274023760893596122012-04-07T21:06:47.748-05:002012-04-07T21:06:47.748-05:00Wow your blog really sucks. You should consider g...Wow your blog really sucks. You should consider giving up ever writing anything ever again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587842796867542781.post-37296435330259455792012-04-07T20:21:52.529-05:002012-04-07T20:21:52.529-05:00eh, why don't you be specific. Answering a que...eh, why don't you be specific. Answering a question with a question is rude. Why don't you be specific and back up your position? <br /><br />I am "stupid and cowardly" because I do not believe blacks are less intelligent than other groups? Okay, I guess I will have to live with that opinion from you. Hey, you have Andrew Sullivan on your side--he agrees with you. I do not think it is smart or brave to conclude from The Bell Curve that Blacks are "less intelligent" than Whites, or that Whites are less intelligent than Asians (at least not on the basis of genetics). I recognize that the testing shows differences, but there are lots of factors to explain that (environment, culture, etc.). And as noted in Losing Ground, there were huge differences between Whites in Belmont, MA and Whites in Fishtown, PA. Is that due to native intelligence or due to sociological conditions? Be specific.Evi L. Bloggerladyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00371362907839227149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587842796867542781.post-3423510395942240412012-04-07T19:59:02.123-05:002012-04-07T19:59:02.123-05:00Thank you.Thank you.Evi L. Bloggerladyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00371362907839227149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587842796867542781.post-21439182524097205522012-04-07T19:57:30.933-05:002012-04-07T19:57:30.933-05:00I asked you to be specific. You were in no way spe...I asked you to be specific. <b>You were in no way specific.</b><br /><br />Sorry to be so blunt:<br /><br /><i>I am very skeptical of the argument blacks are less intelligent,...</i><br /><br />But this statement alone marks you as either 1) ignorant, or 2) stupid and cowardly.<br /><br />I tend toward #2, since you say you've read 'The Bell Curve', which I take to mean you've shown some curiosity on the subject. Perhaps not enough though. Because it is incomprehensible to me that someone could show even the barest curiosity on this admittedly very controversial subject, and still say they are "very skeptical" about whether Whites are, on average, more intelligent than Blacks. <br /><br />Also, I asked you to be specific, and you weren't. You just more or less repeated the same thing.<br /><br /><a href="http://lagriffedulion.f2s.com/testing.htm" rel="nofollow">Here is a link.</a>ehnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587842796867542781.post-18179849343329876052012-04-07T13:44:50.664-05:002012-04-07T13:44:50.664-05:00I have read the Bell Curve (although it has been a...I have read the <i>Bell Curve</i> (although it has been a while) and I have also read <i>Losing Ground</i> (<a href="http://evilbloggerlady.blogspot.com/2012/02/two-candidates-from-two-different.html" rel="nofollow">I previously did a post on it about Romney, who happens to be from Belmont, and Santorum who sort of represents Fishtown before the decline</a>). While I agree there are statistical differences between population groups that you can objectively measure, <i>Losing Ground</i> shows that differences can be a function of societal rewards and disincentives. I am very skeptical of the argument blacks are less intelligent, as some given that will never change. But if you want to argue that is not the case, back it up. <br /><br />The point of my post above was to encourage rational civil discussion on this topic, rather than just lashing out at John Derbyshire in some form of cheap virtue by those who engage in that. Your post is a good one in that it is rational discussion. <br /><br />I was not aware of those bolded statements you made. But if you have a link to your authority on that, let me know. Thanks.Evi L. Bloggerladyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00371362907839227149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7587842796867542781.post-29508492716399414392012-04-07T13:32:36.644-05:002012-04-07T13:32:36.644-05:00I am very skeptical of the intelligence argument m...<i> I am very skeptical of the intelligence argument made and even data from Andrew Sullivan's promoted The Bell Curve does not support Derbyshire's conclusion.</i><br /><br />Which "conclusion" does the 'data not support'? And please be specific.<br /><br />Question: Have you read 'The Bell Curve' yourself?<br /><br />Another question: Are you aware of the following facts?<br /><br /><b>Black children from the wealthiest families have mean SAT scores lower than white children from families below the poverty line.</b><br /><br /><b>Black children of parents with graduate degrees have lower SAT scores than white children of parents with a high-school diploma or less.</b>ehnoreply@blogger.com